WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:08.960 [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:10.000 Hey, everyone. 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:12.240 Welcome to our group's podcast. 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:16.160 I'm here with Teresa Yasmine, and I'm Christina. 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:19.200 And we are second years in the Health Policy and Management 00:00:19.200 --> 00:00:24.960 Department, graduating in just a couple of days. 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:28.400 Yeah, so hi, everybody, just to give a quick overview of what 00:00:28.400 --> 00:00:31.240 this podcast is all about. 00:00:31.240 --> 00:00:34.240 The three of us are in a class together called 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:36.240 the Untold Stories of Health Policy, 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:39.600 where we've been uncovering people and processes 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:42.280 throughout history that have gone untold, 00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:44.760 and their stories have effectively been 00:00:44.760 --> 00:00:46.120 wiped from common knowledge. 00:00:46.120 --> 00:00:50.240 So our project was to find a story to tell 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:51.680 that hasn't been told. 00:00:51.680 --> 00:00:54.760 And so when we were trying to come up with what to do, 00:00:54.760 --> 00:00:57.980 we discovered this woman named Mary Kenner, who actually 00:00:57.980 --> 00:01:00.840 holds the record for the most patents held 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:05.320 by an African-American woman with five patents, one of which 00:01:05.320 --> 00:01:12.240 her most notable was a sanitary belt in the 1920s 00:01:12.240 --> 00:01:20.560 that helped women more effectively deal with menstruation 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:22.160 and when they were on their periods 00:01:22.160 --> 00:01:25.440 and tried to avoid garment staining and that kind of thing. 00:01:25.440 --> 00:01:28.300 But unfortunately, because of intersection of race 00:01:28.300 --> 00:01:31.380 and gender bias and socioeconomic status, 00:01:31.380 --> 00:01:34.980 Mary Kenner was never recognized for this innovation 00:01:34.980 --> 00:01:37.620 and never profited off of it. 00:01:37.620 --> 00:01:40.100 And so when we discovered her, we got talking about how 00:01:40.100 --> 00:01:43.100 we really don't talk much about menstrual sanitation at all. 00:01:43.100 --> 00:01:46.140 And the three of us really didn't know history behind it. 00:01:46.140 --> 00:01:51.100 And we were also kind of curious as to how women 00:01:51.100 --> 00:01:54.140 in our own lives dealt with menstrual sanitation 00:01:54.140 --> 00:01:56.680 and conversations about this because it is such a taboo 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:57.840 topic. 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:00.960 So in an effort to destigmatize this topic, 00:02:00.960 --> 00:02:08.880 we wanted to open the floor and start a conversation about it. 00:02:08.880 --> 00:02:11.560 Yeah, so I think we just really wanted 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:15.200 to tell the stories of women in our own networks, 00:02:15.200 --> 00:02:17.360 as well as of course Mary Kenner and kind of the more 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:19.280 global story here. 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:24.380 So I think, first of all, just in terms of discussing 00:02:24.380 --> 00:02:28.540 and explaining our approach, we looked at six women, 00:02:28.540 --> 00:02:31.140 each of us, to interview two women in our networks 00:02:31.140 --> 00:02:35.460 that we thought might hold particular insight based 00:02:35.460 --> 00:02:38.700 on their age, based on their race, 00:02:38.700 --> 00:02:40.460 based on different characteristics 00:02:40.460 --> 00:02:41.540 that we sort of picked out. 00:02:41.540 --> 00:02:43.540 And so our attempt-- 00:02:43.540 --> 00:02:46.100 we sort of attempted to get the most diverse group of women 00:02:46.100 --> 00:02:47.860 that we could. 00:02:47.860 --> 00:02:51.040 And to be honest, we'll talk about this a little later on. 00:02:51.040 --> 00:02:53.120 But there's a lot of overlapping themes 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:56.840 between a huge age range, very diverse backgrounds. 00:02:56.840 --> 00:03:00.960 And I think that speaks to why this is such an untold story. 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:04.280 People are having the same or very similar experiences. 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:05.800 And we don't know about each other. 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:09.160 And we don't know what's going on in the lives 00:03:09.160 --> 00:03:11.160 of our family members even. 00:03:11.160 --> 00:03:15.400 So that was pretty much our approach. 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:19.020 Yeah, so to kind of start talking about the experience 00:03:19.020 --> 00:03:21.020 that we went through with these interviews, 00:03:21.020 --> 00:03:24.420 I kind of want to start off with what were y'all's experiences 00:03:24.420 --> 00:03:27.540 when you talk to individuals in your life about, 00:03:27.540 --> 00:03:31.500 did they even know really what a period was beforehand? 00:03:31.500 --> 00:03:33.620 I know from speaking to a woman in my life, 00:03:33.620 --> 00:03:36.340 it ranged from I had an idea. 00:03:36.340 --> 00:03:39.220 I was told in class, but I didn't know why it was happening 00:03:39.220 --> 00:03:40.620 and what was really happening. 00:03:40.620 --> 00:03:43.100 But I knew something was going to happen. 00:03:43.100 --> 00:03:46.160 And I knew it was a sign that my body was changing, 00:03:46.160 --> 00:03:49.520 where another older woman that I interviewed, 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:52.160 she basically said, I had no idea what's happening. 00:03:52.160 --> 00:03:53.320 No one told me. 00:03:53.320 --> 00:03:54.480 No one said anything. 00:03:54.480 --> 00:03:55.880 I was taken by surprise. 00:03:55.880 --> 00:03:59.040 And then when I would talk to somebody, 00:03:59.040 --> 00:04:02.480 they basically made it sound like we don't talk about these 00:04:02.480 --> 00:04:03.840 types of things in our house. 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:05.920 And so I didn't know kind of your guys' experience 00:04:05.920 --> 00:04:07.600 of people that you knew kind of knew 00:04:07.600 --> 00:04:10.840 what was happening beforehand. 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:12.960 Yeah, so I had interviewed my mom 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:14.260 and my sister. 00:04:14.260 --> 00:04:16.340 My mom, the same thing, didn't know what it was 00:04:16.340 --> 00:04:17.180 until she got it. 00:04:17.180 --> 00:04:19.020 She was like, one day, I just went to the bathroom, 00:04:19.020 --> 00:04:21.700 saw it, went to my mom and was like, what is this? 00:04:21.700 --> 00:04:26.300 And she said, grandma, then have the conversation with me, 00:04:26.300 --> 00:04:29.100 but it wasn't about, oh, this is the process 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:30.100 and why this happens. 00:04:30.100 --> 00:04:32.300 It was more a conversation about, OK, logistically, 00:04:32.300 --> 00:04:33.900 this is how you're going to deal with it. 00:04:33.900 --> 00:04:35.460 You're going to get it once a month. 00:04:35.460 --> 00:04:37.460 And you're going to have to deal with this 00:04:37.460 --> 00:04:38.500 for the rest of your life. 00:04:38.500 --> 00:04:41.660 Nothing about, oh, usually you should count 30 days. 00:04:41.660 --> 00:04:43.520 But when you know to prepare for the next time, 00:04:43.520 --> 00:04:45.600 this will happen, none of that. 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.320 And I think looking back, my mom was thinking, 00:04:48.320 --> 00:04:51.080 I think it was just a barrier to help literacy. 00:04:51.080 --> 00:04:52.280 My grandma didn't know. 00:04:52.280 --> 00:04:55.600 So she was just passing on what she had been told. 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:58.800 And then my sister, who's two years younger than me, 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:00.600 doesn't remember the exact conversation. 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:03.520 But she remembers my mom pulling me to the side 00:05:03.520 --> 00:05:04.080 and telling me. 00:05:04.080 --> 00:05:05.760 And she just remembers it was a conversation 00:05:05.760 --> 00:05:06.960 that she wasn't allowed to hear yet, 00:05:06.960 --> 00:05:08.800 because she wasn't old enough. 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:11.740 And eventually she had her own conversation. 00:05:11.740 --> 00:05:14.020 And then she was talking about how they did talk about it 00:05:14.020 --> 00:05:14.580 in school. 00:05:14.580 --> 00:05:16.700 But by time they did, she had already gotten it. 00:05:16.700 --> 00:05:20.980 So that was kind of moot at that point. 00:05:20.980 --> 00:05:23.140 But still, there was that secrecy around it. 00:05:23.140 --> 00:05:26.260 And it being kind of stigmatized, 00:05:26.260 --> 00:05:29.060 it's something you didn't want to talk about. 00:05:29.060 --> 00:05:30.660 Yeah, very similar. 00:05:30.660 --> 00:05:34.660 I spoke to two women of kind of different backgrounds. 00:05:34.660 --> 00:05:37.780 So one of them, she's 74. 00:05:37.780 --> 00:05:42.480 And she also very similarly to kind of your guys' experience 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:44.000 was sort of like, one day I got it. 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:48.520 And then my mom was like, this is what happens. 00:05:48.520 --> 00:05:50.600 These are the products that you use. 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:52.640 This is how you'll manage it. 00:05:52.640 --> 00:05:55.440 And then-- but there was still that sense 00:05:55.440 --> 00:05:58.320 of not really wanting to talk about it. 00:05:58.320 --> 00:06:00.160 So I think that was sort of one experience. 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:03.880 The other woman I talked to said she never had a conversation 00:06:03.880 --> 00:06:04.600 with her mom about it. 00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:07.240 They never spoke about it ever. 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:09.780 The only way that she knew was actually 00:06:09.780 --> 00:06:11.860 from older girls in school. 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:18.060 So she kind of had an idea that girls got this thing, 00:06:18.060 --> 00:06:20.300 this bleeding every month. 00:06:20.300 --> 00:06:24.180 And then she discovered different products in magazines 00:06:24.180 --> 00:06:26.780 or just kind of through the grapevine 00:06:26.780 --> 00:06:28.300 with other young girls. 00:06:28.300 --> 00:06:30.020 And so there really was no-- 00:06:30.020 --> 00:06:31.900 first of all, there wasn't a conversation with the parents. 00:06:31.900 --> 00:06:35.540 Definitely nothing through school. 00:06:35.540 --> 00:06:38.680 And just for context, she lived in India. 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:44.000 So that type was probably even more extreme 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:45.960 than we can imagine. 00:06:45.960 --> 00:06:52.680 But so for those two women, that experience of stigma 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:53.560 was definitely there. 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:56.120 That experience of not having some sort of formalized 00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:59.600 conversation with school, that was definitely there. 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:02.920 And then in perhaps the most troubling case, 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:04.560 there was no conversation at all. 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:07.940 It was just all gossip and kind of just 00:07:07.940 --> 00:07:09.660 through what you heard from classmates. 00:07:09.660 --> 00:07:16.740 Did you guys talk at all about what products were available? 00:07:16.740 --> 00:07:19.660 Christina, interesting talk about India, what bad experience. 00:07:19.660 --> 00:07:22.820 I'm sure that's completely different than our Western 00:07:22.820 --> 00:07:24.700 view of like to have a period. 00:07:24.700 --> 00:07:28.700 I know my mom, it was funny, she got her period when she was 13. 00:07:28.700 --> 00:07:30.420 It was 1966. 00:07:30.420 --> 00:07:33.400 So I asked her, did you guys have had them? 00:07:33.400 --> 00:07:34.640 What was going on? 00:07:34.640 --> 00:07:36.360 And it triggered her memory. 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:38.160 And she was like, oh my god, I think I actually 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:39.800 did use the sanitary belt. 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:40.920 It was an elastic belt. 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:42.480 And you attached the pad to it. 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:45.200 It wasn't adhesive pad yet, which is funny, 00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:47.120 because I know when the three of us discovered that with Mary 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:50.560 Kenner, we were like, what an archaic product. 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.640 And my mom used it when she was a teenager. 00:07:53.640 --> 00:07:56.720 And then a funny story my sister told me 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:00.380 was that she was so, again, going back to the stigma, 00:08:00.380 --> 00:08:04.940 being so secretive, she was so afraid of leaking in middle school 00:08:04.940 --> 00:08:07.180 or like other girls finding out or anyone finding out 00:08:07.180 --> 00:08:10.700 that she had it, that she would stack like two, three pads 00:08:10.700 --> 00:08:14.420 at a time just to be like triple sure she was going to be safe. 00:08:14.420 --> 00:08:16.860 So I thought that was kind of funny, even though she still 00:08:16.860 --> 00:08:19.100 had the modern products we use. 00:08:19.100 --> 00:08:22.740 But that was a funny take on period products. 00:08:22.740 --> 00:08:25.860 I don't know if you guys talked about the logistics of products 00:08:25.860 --> 00:08:28.320 or disposal hygiene. 00:08:28.320 --> 00:08:29.360 Yeah, yeah, no. 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:31.040 I think it's also funny what your sister said. 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:34.360 I think that every girl can relate to having a moment being 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:37.240 like, oh my god, I'm not sure this is happening. 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:40.480 I need to get up slowly just in case it is happening. 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:42.400 Do I have a sweater somewhere in school? 00:08:42.400 --> 00:08:45.440 So I think every girl can relate to having that. 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:49.880 But in that moment, still feeling so embarrassed and so alone. 00:08:49.880 --> 00:08:51.760 It's like, oh my god, what do I do? 00:08:51.760 --> 00:08:53.360 Like we're talking about how everyone knows 00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:55.400 how to hide a tampon if you go to the bathroom. 00:08:55.400 --> 00:08:59.340 Like up the sleeve, which is we're pros at this point. 00:08:59.340 --> 00:09:01.220 Like why are we pros? 00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:02.660 It's because of the social stigma 00:09:02.660 --> 00:09:04.500 that we have around these types of things. 00:09:04.500 --> 00:09:08.460 But when I was talking to my mom, and my mom is in her mid-40s, 00:09:08.460 --> 00:09:10.740 and I was talking to her about it. 00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:13.420 And she was late a little bit later to get her period 00:09:13.420 --> 00:09:14.860 and compared to her friends. 00:09:14.860 --> 00:09:17.340 Because her friends got a younger around like 12, 13. 00:09:17.340 --> 00:09:19.260 And she saw that her friends had it. 00:09:19.260 --> 00:09:21.780 And they were using tampons at that time 00:09:21.780 --> 00:09:22.940 because they had tampons. 00:09:22.940 --> 00:09:25.300 And my grandma basically said, that is something 00:09:25.300 --> 00:09:26.140 you do not use. 00:09:26.140 --> 00:09:27.780 You do not use a tampon. 00:09:27.780 --> 00:09:29.180 Like that is for women. 00:09:29.180 --> 00:09:30.820 Like you are a child. 00:09:30.820 --> 00:09:33.460 And my mom never really understood why. 00:09:33.460 --> 00:09:35.660 Like why that product was only for women. 00:09:35.660 --> 00:09:37.860 And really why she had to use this. 00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:41.020 She said it felt like a diaper on her. 00:09:41.020 --> 00:09:44.820 But it was clear to her that the girls, her friends who did use 00:09:44.820 --> 00:09:46.500 it, she was like, wow, those girls, 00:09:46.500 --> 00:09:47.660 there's something wrong with them. 00:09:47.660 --> 00:09:48.660 Why are they using that? 00:09:48.660 --> 00:09:50.260 Like they're not supposed to be doing that. 00:09:50.260 --> 00:09:52.020 So I think it's also interesting kind of even 00:09:52.020 --> 00:09:54.420 the stigma that there is around certain products 00:09:54.420 --> 00:09:57.260 and what age girls can use. 00:09:57.260 --> 00:09:58.540 Certain products even for me personally, 00:09:58.540 --> 00:10:02.340 I knew that I advocated for me to be able to use tampons. 00:10:02.340 --> 00:10:03.300 I was playing sports. 00:10:03.300 --> 00:10:08.820 And I was like, I can't be active and really be wearing a pad. 00:10:08.820 --> 00:10:13.740 So that's when my mom was like, OK, I get that. 00:10:13.740 --> 00:10:14.980 Yeah, for sure. 00:10:14.980 --> 00:10:21.980 I think in terms of products, I feel like there's definitely 00:10:21.980 --> 00:10:26.220 a Western-centric view and then perhaps an Eastern or more 00:10:26.220 --> 00:10:27.180 global South view. 00:10:27.180 --> 00:10:34.620 Because the woman that I talked to who was American, 00:10:34.620 --> 00:10:41.100 she was pretty aware of pads and tampons and the options 00:10:41.100 --> 00:10:42.620 available to her. 00:10:42.620 --> 00:10:45.100 She didn't really have issues with access as well. 00:10:45.100 --> 00:10:47.460 She knew she could go to the store. 00:10:47.460 --> 00:10:51.460 She could ask her mom for money for that kind of thing. 00:10:51.460 --> 00:10:54.980 And she was sort of like, that wasn't a huge issue. 00:10:54.980 --> 00:10:57.220 And I think that was mainly the bulk 00:10:57.220 --> 00:11:00.340 of the logistical conversation that she had had with her own 00:11:00.340 --> 00:11:03.420 mother was really around products and how to manage. 00:11:03.420 --> 00:11:06.900 In contrast, the woman from India I spoke to, 00:11:06.900 --> 00:11:12.260 she was sort of like, no, you could go down to the convenience 00:11:12.260 --> 00:11:14.540 store and get a pad. 00:11:14.540 --> 00:11:16.220 Tampons were not a thing at all. 00:11:16.220 --> 00:11:19.180 So it was just the pad. 00:11:19.180 --> 00:11:22.700 And I think similarly as me, there was a stigma 00:11:22.700 --> 00:11:26.220 on other products like that that were kind of implying 00:11:26.220 --> 00:11:28.900 that there was something you shouldn't have been doing. 00:11:28.900 --> 00:11:32.020 And that's why you were using tampons. 00:11:32.020 --> 00:11:35.860 But she had sort of said that in terms of access, 00:11:35.860 --> 00:11:39.980 the products that they mainly used were cloth. 00:11:39.980 --> 00:11:43.620 So just kind of like t-shirt type material. 00:11:43.620 --> 00:11:46.700 And you kind of bunch that up, which I can't even imagine 00:11:46.700 --> 00:11:49.460 what that must have felt like. 00:11:49.460 --> 00:11:52.500 And then beyond that, you might get your hands on a pad 00:11:52.500 --> 00:11:55.220 if you've saved up a little money that you maybe got 00:11:55.220 --> 00:11:56.260 from your parents. 00:11:56.260 --> 00:11:58.380 And so if you were going on a trip or something, 00:11:58.380 --> 00:12:00.260 you might go down to the convenience store. 00:12:00.260 --> 00:12:02.460 But one of the things she said, which was really interesting, 00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:03.740 is we can go into the store. 00:12:03.740 --> 00:12:05.820 We can go into CVS, Dwayne Reed, whatever, 00:12:05.820 --> 00:12:07.660 and just grab whatever we need. 00:12:07.660 --> 00:12:11.580 But back in that time, there was a man shopkeeper 00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:14.220 who you had to go through to get those products. 00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:16.420 And for that reason as well, there 00:12:16.420 --> 00:12:19.180 was this extra barrier of being like, 00:12:19.180 --> 00:12:21.300 I don't even want to get these products 00:12:21.300 --> 00:12:25.100 because I don't want to talk about it with this person who 00:12:25.100 --> 00:12:26.980 owns the store or is working at the store. 00:12:26.980 --> 00:12:29.020 So I thought that was really interesting. 00:12:29.020 --> 00:12:35.020 And I think as well, the other piece that is perhaps very 00:12:35.020 --> 00:12:40.740 untold here in the West is that women in the Global South 00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:45.460 are in developing nations, often are dealing with problematic 00:12:45.460 --> 00:12:46.380 bathroom conditions. 00:12:46.380 --> 00:12:49.140 I didn't even think about it when I was talking to this woman. 00:12:49.140 --> 00:12:51.860 But he was sort of like, there's no running water. 00:12:51.860 --> 00:12:56.580 There's no little canisters to put your-- 00:12:56.580 --> 00:12:57.900 to dispose of your products. 00:12:57.900 --> 00:12:59.380 And that's not a thing. 00:12:59.380 --> 00:13:03.140 So I think it was really interesting and enlightening 00:13:03.140 --> 00:13:06.140 to hear all of that, especially just thinking, 00:13:06.140 --> 00:13:08.420 one, how lucky we are, but also just 00:13:08.420 --> 00:13:11.340 how far things have sort of come. 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:11.940 Yeah. 00:13:11.940 --> 00:13:13.940 And the thing that's even important to-- 00:13:13.940 --> 00:13:16.940 I always think about even when I'm on my period, 00:13:16.940 --> 00:13:18.860 I'm in a public place and I'm just like, oh, 00:13:18.860 --> 00:13:20.020 I don't feel like dealing with this. 00:13:20.020 --> 00:13:21.380 I just want to be at home. 00:13:21.380 --> 00:13:24.340 And it's just like, we're so fortunate to wear almost every 00:13:24.340 --> 00:13:26.980 single bathroom anywhere you go, even down to a gas 00:13:26.980 --> 00:13:28.540 store convenience station. 00:13:28.540 --> 00:13:30.900 They have a place for you to dispose of your products. 00:13:30.900 --> 00:13:33.500 Most places have products for free that you can get. 00:13:33.500 --> 00:13:36.460 So even that little inconvenience that we experience 00:13:36.460 --> 00:13:40.100 is so different than, I'm sure, so many women 00:13:40.100 --> 00:13:43.140 across the world today. 00:13:43.140 --> 00:13:44.340 Yeah, absolutely. 00:13:44.340 --> 00:13:46.260 And I think one of the things-- 00:13:46.260 --> 00:13:48.860 this sort of came up in the conversation around stigma 00:13:48.860 --> 00:13:51.500 as well, which I'm curious about how both your interviews went 00:13:51.500 --> 00:13:52.020 about this. 00:13:52.020 --> 00:13:56.060 But I know for both my interviews, 00:13:56.060 --> 00:14:00.540 that experience of stigma and realizing it wasn't something 00:14:00.540 --> 00:14:03.940 that anyone talked about, that was a prevalent theme. 00:14:03.940 --> 00:14:05.460 It sounds like through all our interviews, 00:14:05.460 --> 00:14:07.820 but it's just incredible that that's 00:14:07.820 --> 00:14:11.300 a theme throughout all the different diverse backgrounds 00:14:11.300 --> 00:14:15.980 that we have and ages that we have in our interviews. 00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:18.300 So I'm curious from your guys' perspective, 00:14:18.300 --> 00:14:21.540 what did-- how did the women that you interviewed 00:14:21.540 --> 00:14:23.460 express their feelings around stigma? 00:14:23.460 --> 00:14:26.660 Or did they-- I mean, one thing that I had asked was, 00:14:26.660 --> 00:14:29.300 do you think that the stigma is a problem? 00:14:29.300 --> 00:14:33.740 And the funniest thing is that the women were sort of like, 00:14:33.740 --> 00:14:34.700 I don't know. 00:14:34.700 --> 00:14:35.260 Is it? 00:14:35.260 --> 00:14:37.100 Like, they hadn't ever stopped to think about it, 00:14:37.100 --> 00:14:40.860 mostly because I think we have the privilege 00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:43.780 as growing up in this generation and in the West 00:14:43.780 --> 00:14:49.340 of actually having the agency to think about stigma 00:14:49.340 --> 00:14:52.500 as potentially an issue, whereas they really just didn't. 00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:56.980 It wasn't-- it just was how you lived life. 00:14:56.980 --> 00:14:59.500 Yeah, well, something that was interesting that came 00:14:59.500 --> 00:15:02.620 from my mom's interview was she was talking 00:15:02.620 --> 00:15:05.860 about how debilitating it was, but how it took her so long 00:15:05.860 --> 00:15:07.220 to get help. 00:15:07.220 --> 00:15:11.620 She would have awful cramps, but also dysfunctional uterine 00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:12.020 bleeding. 00:15:12.020 --> 00:15:14.420 It's an actual term where it would just be so heavy 00:15:14.420 --> 00:15:15.780 that she couldn't leave the bathroom, 00:15:15.780 --> 00:15:18.020 and she was also anemic. 00:15:18.020 --> 00:15:19.740 And so it really impacted her health, 00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:23.660 but she didn't see a doctor until, I think, late after college, 00:15:23.660 --> 00:15:24.980 like 20s. 00:15:24.980 --> 00:15:26.540 And they put her on birth control, 00:15:26.540 --> 00:15:29.820 which then was a whole other layer of stigma 00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:32.060 because grew up Catholic. 00:15:32.060 --> 00:15:35.100 And also just at the time, like the '80s, 00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:38.580 still some health concerns about birth control, 00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:41.220 with strokes and clots and things like that. 00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:44.340 So that was just a very scary experience for her. 00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:48.300 But the fact that she didn't reach out and get 00:15:48.300 --> 00:15:51.100 medical attention for so long, because it was just not-- 00:15:51.100 --> 00:15:52.220 it was just something you dealt with. 00:15:52.220 --> 00:15:54.340 It was like, oh, I guess you get it extra bad. 00:15:54.340 --> 00:15:55.500 Like, that's too bad. 00:15:55.500 --> 00:15:56.420 Sorry. 00:15:56.420 --> 00:15:59.020 And then what's funny on my sister's side 00:15:59.020 --> 00:16:01.860 is she's actually about to graduate medical school 00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:03.740 and become a pediatrician. 00:16:03.740 --> 00:16:06.060 But I was curious to ask her, what 00:16:06.060 --> 00:16:08.260 is it like when you talk with patients? 00:16:08.260 --> 00:16:10.700 And she was like, oh, kids, they're still so awkward. 00:16:10.700 --> 00:16:12.340 We talked to them about puberty. 00:16:12.340 --> 00:16:15.420 I come in and try to talk to them very nonchalant, 00:16:15.420 --> 00:16:17.900 and that's doctors who really try to normalize 00:16:17.900 --> 00:16:18.820 those conversations. 00:16:18.820 --> 00:16:20.500 But it's still really hard, especially 00:16:20.500 --> 00:16:23.060 if there's a parent in the room or if you 00:16:23.060 --> 00:16:24.380 have to talk about birth control. 00:16:24.380 --> 00:16:26.980 They're much more likely to open up about needing it 00:16:26.980 --> 00:16:30.100 if there's not a parent in the room. 00:16:30.100 --> 00:16:34.340 So we've talked to women from ages of 75 down to kids today. 00:16:34.340 --> 00:16:37.420 It's still such an issue about being so nervous to talk 00:16:37.420 --> 00:16:38.100 about these things. 00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:42.780 Yeah, no, absolutely. 00:16:42.780 --> 00:16:45.220 I think that there is always-- 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:48.220 it has been a really big signal around really 00:16:48.220 --> 00:16:49.500 menstruation for women. 00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:51.940 And I don't think there's an equivalent for men, which 00:16:51.940 --> 00:16:53.380 that's a no surprise at this point. 00:16:53.380 --> 00:16:56.860 But I think even when talking to really my mom 00:16:56.860 --> 00:16:59.740 and an older woman who is in her mid-70s from-- 00:16:59.740 --> 00:17:05.260 grew up in Montreal, I kind of talked to her about how did 00:17:05.260 --> 00:17:09.100 kind of this whole taboo element of your period 00:17:09.100 --> 00:17:10.500 kind of fit in with women at the time? 00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:12.620 And I totally like where she was just like, 00:17:12.620 --> 00:17:13.780 women didn't have rights. 00:17:13.780 --> 00:17:14.780 I couldn't vote. 00:17:14.780 --> 00:17:15.580 She's a black woman. 00:17:15.580 --> 00:17:17.260 So she's just like, even thinking 00:17:17.260 --> 00:17:19.740 about how I would have a right to an opinion about something 00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:22.540 about my body just seemed so foreign to me, 00:17:22.540 --> 00:17:24.980 because nothing else was our choice at that time. 00:17:24.980 --> 00:17:26.420 So it's even, like we say, it's a privilege 00:17:26.420 --> 00:17:28.860 for us to even be like, this is wrong. 00:17:28.860 --> 00:17:30.420 We need to fix this, because there 00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:33.820 are so many women for so long that didn't think 00:17:33.820 --> 00:17:37.260 that that was even a feasible option at that point. 00:17:37.260 --> 00:17:39.900 And I do think, I probably think about even myself, 00:17:39.900 --> 00:17:43.220 when my mom talked to me about it when I first got it, 00:17:43.220 --> 00:17:46.700 because I really wasn't warned, because I think it happened 00:17:46.700 --> 00:17:48.100 to me that my mom expected. 00:17:48.100 --> 00:17:50.780 And I remember crying, because I thought I was in trouble. 00:17:50.780 --> 00:17:52.700 I remember crying being like, something happened. 00:17:52.700 --> 00:17:53.780 I think I'm in trouble. 00:17:53.780 --> 00:17:54.860 Like, what did I do wrong? 00:17:54.860 --> 00:17:58.300 And my mom was like, this is so beautiful. 00:17:58.300 --> 00:18:00.220 And I was just like, what is going on right now? 00:18:00.220 --> 00:18:01.700 This is so weird. 00:18:01.700 --> 00:18:04.740 But I think that's something we really need to work on, 00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:06.260 and kind of segue into kind of something 00:18:06.260 --> 00:18:08.460 I want to talk about is, what do we do? 00:18:08.460 --> 00:18:11.260 Like, how do we kind of better the stigma 00:18:11.260 --> 00:18:13.540 and kind of the history of menstruation? 00:18:13.540 --> 00:18:16.860 And I even think about, what do I want to do if I have daughters? 00:18:16.860 --> 00:18:17.820 And what would I do better? 00:18:17.820 --> 00:18:20.660 And I think, for me, what caused this level of confusion 00:18:20.660 --> 00:18:23.300 was just, it's one thing to understand 00:18:23.300 --> 00:18:27.340 that you're getting a period and how to prepare and what to do. 00:18:27.340 --> 00:18:29.260 But it's definitely going to be like, this is why you're 00:18:29.260 --> 00:18:30.380 getting a period. 00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:32.460 This is the meaning, biologically, 00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:34.500 as to why women get periods. 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:36.380 It's that you can one day have a baby. 00:18:36.380 --> 00:18:39.220 So getting a period is an amazing thing. 00:18:39.220 --> 00:18:41.740 It's a blessing that a lot of women actually 00:18:41.740 --> 00:18:42.620 don't even get their period. 00:18:42.620 --> 00:18:44.900 I have someone I grew up with who never got a period, 00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:47.180 will never be able to have children. 00:18:47.180 --> 00:18:50.300 So it's like being able to be transparent about kind 00:18:50.300 --> 00:18:53.540 of the purpose of our bodies doing something like this. 00:18:53.540 --> 00:18:55.980 I think kind of normalizing that and realizing that 00:18:55.980 --> 00:18:58.020 without a woman doing this, like, there 00:18:58.020 --> 00:19:00.980 would be no more of us in this world, no more people. 00:19:00.980 --> 00:19:04.380 So I think kind of it starts from that element of kind of mothers. 00:19:04.380 --> 00:19:06.660 And I don't say just mothers, because I think a lot of dads, 00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:09.140 a lot of parents, a lot of grandparents 00:19:09.140 --> 00:19:11.260 had these conversations with individuals in their life, 00:19:11.260 --> 00:19:14.020 but just kind of being transparent about kind of what 00:19:14.020 --> 00:19:17.260 are the reasons is even happening to our body to begin with. 00:19:17.260 --> 00:19:19.500 But I'm interested to hear kind of your guys' perspective 00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:22.740 of kind of what can you change. 00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:25.900 Yeah, I think that this is sort of, to me, 00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:29.140 the crux of why we wanted to tell this untold story 00:19:29.140 --> 00:19:33.180 is what can we do to improve this situation, one for women, 00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:34.540 but also just for all people. 00:19:34.540 --> 00:19:39.620 Because like you said, there's a whole half of the population 00:19:39.620 --> 00:19:42.380 that I think really should be brought into this more. 00:19:42.380 --> 00:19:45.420 I mean, in terms of it being like a women's issue, 00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:46.980 I think that that's the wrong framing. 00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:49.140 We need to talk about this as a family issue. 00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:52.540 You know, every man has a woman in his life, probably, 00:19:52.540 --> 00:19:57.020 that he loves, you know, every heterosexual man. 00:19:57.020 --> 00:20:01.380 So I think that is important to bring men into this conversation 00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:03.460 because I don't think we will move forward on policy, 00:20:03.460 --> 00:20:06.180 whether that's ending the pink tax, 00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:08.340 moving forward with free products and bathrooms, 00:20:08.340 --> 00:20:14.740 making sure that our society is more accepting of folks 00:20:14.740 --> 00:20:18.380 who need to take time off due to this, due to menstruation. 00:20:18.380 --> 00:20:20.940 We really won't get any of that until we bring men 00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:22.020 into that conversation. 00:20:22.020 --> 00:20:24.140 So I think that's one really important thing. 00:20:24.140 --> 00:20:26.980 The other important thing I think just learning 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:30.620 from this project is just the power of telling stories. 00:20:30.620 --> 00:20:32.500 I mean, if we hadn't had this experience 00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:34.820 of having this project, I don't think I ever would have approached 00:20:34.820 --> 00:20:37.740 the women that I did to ask their experience. 00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:41.580 And I think that their stories really hold power 00:20:41.580 --> 00:20:44.060 in moving all of us forward. 00:20:44.060 --> 00:20:48.020 Hearing how far things have come gives me hope 00:20:48.020 --> 00:20:52.580 to say that, you know, are the next generation might have it 00:20:52.580 --> 00:20:55.700 a bit different seeing how fortunate we are compared 00:20:55.700 --> 00:20:58.020 to, you know, older generations experience. 00:20:58.020 --> 00:21:02.140 So I think also just this is kind of hopefully the beginning 00:21:02.140 --> 00:21:05.500 of for us, but I hope for everyone listening to this podcast 00:21:05.500 --> 00:21:08.980 of telling these stories and asking about these stories 00:21:08.980 --> 00:21:12.460 because we do need to reframe menstruation in general 00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:14.980 as a celebration of life as opposed to something 00:21:14.980 --> 00:21:16.780 that needs to be hidden away. 00:21:17.700 --> 00:21:20.540 Yeah, and just to go off something that you said, 00:21:20.540 --> 00:21:22.500 when you said kind of a family thing, 00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:26.460 it even made me think about kind of at what point was I like, 00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:27.900 wow, I don't want to talk about it. 00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:30.940 I even think of like a young age of like being in middle school, 00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:33.220 you know, and like being nervous that you're like, 00:21:33.220 --> 00:21:35.540 you get your period in school, what like guys may say. 00:21:35.540 --> 00:21:39.260 And I know I can remember vividly girls who get their period 00:21:39.260 --> 00:21:42.460 and God forbid, actually went through their pants 00:21:42.460 --> 00:21:43.940 and guys saying stuff like that. 00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:45.900 So I even think about it comes from normalizing, 00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:47.620 like if you have thought, you know, 00:21:47.620 --> 00:21:49.060 bringing them into that process and be like, 00:21:49.060 --> 00:21:51.140 there's some, this is what happens to women. 00:21:51.140 --> 00:21:53.940 You know, I just think that this is a much larger conversation. 00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:55.260 I don't want to sidetrack us in any ways. 00:21:55.260 --> 00:21:57.420 It just fits into a larger conversation 00:21:57.420 --> 00:21:58.940 of sex education at this point 00:21:58.940 --> 00:22:02.500 and how sex education for women is not at all taught 00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:05.060 as a good thing and something you can enjoy 00:22:05.060 --> 00:22:06.340 and something you should be proud of 00:22:06.340 --> 00:22:08.060 where from a male standpoint, 00:22:08.060 --> 00:22:11.020 it has always been taught of this is sex is amazing, 00:22:11.020 --> 00:22:12.660 what you're going to go through puberty, it's amazing. 00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:15.100 It's going to make you a man, it's going to make you better. 00:22:15.100 --> 00:22:17.700 Whereas like it's always been a sexual process for women 00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:20.340 if it's a lot more of a shameful behind the scenes type 00:22:20.340 --> 00:22:22.220 of conversations. 00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:26.540 I think, you know, it starts off with young boys 00:22:26.540 --> 00:22:28.380 understanding what's going on with women 00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:29.940 and to where she's even just like even nowadays 00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:31.340 when I tell my boyfriend like, 00:22:31.340 --> 00:22:34.700 he got me tampons, I'm like, oh, but I really was like, 00:22:34.700 --> 00:22:35.860 okay, I need to get over this. 00:22:35.860 --> 00:22:37.540 Like he didn't say comfortable, I'm comfortable. 00:22:37.540 --> 00:22:38.700 Like he can go do this. 00:22:38.700 --> 00:22:39.540 It's good. 00:22:39.540 --> 00:22:40.940 Like this is affecting both of us. 00:22:40.940 --> 00:22:43.060 Like this is not just affecting me, it affects us. 00:22:43.060 --> 00:22:45.900 It affects like our future, you know? 00:22:45.900 --> 00:22:48.740 - Yeah, well, I don't know if this was what help was like 00:22:48.740 --> 00:22:53.380 for you guys, I remember the session that we had, 00:22:53.380 --> 00:22:56.580 we talked about periods of puberty, we separated. 00:22:56.580 --> 00:22:58.340 Like all the boys went to a different room 00:22:58.340 --> 00:22:59.460 and talked about whatever they talked. 00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:01.460 I don't even know, 'cause I wasn't there. 00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:02.900 And then we talked about periods. 00:23:02.900 --> 00:23:04.500 It was like, why did we do that? 00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:06.820 Why can't we hear about what everybody's going through? 00:23:06.820 --> 00:23:08.140 Have empathy for each other. 00:23:08.140 --> 00:23:10.500 It's a really difficult time. 00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:12.980 So, you know, being young and a preteen, a teenager, 00:23:12.980 --> 00:23:15.340 is just awful when you're going through puberty. 00:23:15.340 --> 00:23:18.420 So why are we all in this together? 00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:20.380 And I think my sister, when we were talking about this, 00:23:20.380 --> 00:23:23.020 my sister was telling me that there's a TikTok trend, 00:23:23.020 --> 00:23:27.020 which I'm not on TikTok yet, but I hear it's women. 00:23:27.020 --> 00:23:28.780 - You should be in the train. 00:23:28.780 --> 00:23:32.620 - Yeah, girls asking guys, like, how would you put a pad on? 00:23:32.620 --> 00:23:33.620 And they have no idea. 00:23:33.620 --> 00:23:36.060 They don't know where the adhesive part goes. 00:23:36.060 --> 00:23:39.420 So it's just so funny that just these simple things, 00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:42.100 like, not all of us are aware of it, 00:23:42.100 --> 00:23:44.700 but I think it's important to extend education 00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:49.180 to all sexes that were just more sympathetic to each other. 00:23:49.180 --> 00:23:52.140 - It's funny that you say that 00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:53.900 because there was this TikTok, actually, 00:23:53.900 --> 00:23:54.980 that I showed my boyfriend, 00:23:54.980 --> 00:23:58.180 and it was basically a tampon, and you put it in water, 00:23:58.180 --> 00:23:59.460 and you want it to explode. 00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:01.820 And I showed my boyfriend, he was like, 00:24:01.820 --> 00:24:03.540 how does it get that big? 00:24:03.540 --> 00:24:04.660 Like, what is going on? 00:24:04.660 --> 00:24:05.500 Like, why does it need to get, 00:24:05.500 --> 00:24:06.700 he's like, it fits in that. 00:24:06.700 --> 00:24:08.660 And he just didn't even understand, 00:24:08.660 --> 00:24:10.860 like, that's what happened, that it expands, 00:24:10.860 --> 00:24:11.820 like, how do you get it out? 00:24:11.820 --> 00:24:14.620 Like, just so many, like, he had just never thought about it. 00:24:14.620 --> 00:24:16.260 You know, like, this whole process of, 00:24:16.260 --> 00:24:18.180 he's just like, how does it even get, like, can you, 00:24:18.180 --> 00:24:20.780 and I'm just like, okay, we need to have a sit-down conversation, 00:24:20.780 --> 00:24:23.020 but it's very true, like, when sex happens, 00:24:23.020 --> 00:24:26.260 women, girls are in one room, boys in the other room, 00:24:26.260 --> 00:24:28.140 and then you giggle after it, 00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:30.820 and then guys, boys walk out, and they're like, ha, ha, ha, 00:24:30.820 --> 00:24:32.220 you know, and you just never really know 00:24:32.220 --> 00:24:33.580 exactly what went on, I think. 00:24:33.580 --> 00:24:35.620 Like, he's like kind of breaking down that fairy 00:24:35.620 --> 00:24:38.180 at a young age, and being apathetic of what everyone, 00:24:38.180 --> 00:24:39.140 whatever one is going through, 00:24:39.140 --> 00:24:41.020 I think it's just super important, 00:24:41.020 --> 00:24:43.020 having, 'cause I think this all falls under, 00:24:43.020 --> 00:24:46.460 like we said, like, kind of pre-teenage sex conversations 00:24:46.460 --> 00:24:49.180 of like having it be a lot more of an empowering conversation 00:24:49.180 --> 00:24:51.100 for everyone involved in it, you know, like, 00:24:51.100 --> 00:24:52.620 this is just all amazing things, 00:24:52.620 --> 00:24:53.820 it shows that, like, you're getting older, 00:24:53.820 --> 00:24:55.500 it shows that you have more responsibility, you know, 00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:57.540 I think it is something to definitely be celebrated 00:24:57.540 --> 00:24:58.780 from everybody. 00:24:58.780 --> 00:25:03.140 - Yeah, I think it was telling just how much, 00:25:03.140 --> 00:25:06.060 I mean, I feel like we're public health students, 00:25:06.060 --> 00:25:09.220 we're women, you know, we should know everything 00:25:09.220 --> 00:25:11.500 about this topic, and there was so much we didn't know 00:25:11.500 --> 00:25:13.580 from Mary Kenner to just history of, you know, 00:25:13.580 --> 00:25:16.460 what did women in the fifth century do, you know, 00:25:16.460 --> 00:25:19.220 that it was fascinating to research all of that stuff. 00:25:19.220 --> 00:25:22.180 So if the three of us don't know that much about it, 00:25:22.180 --> 00:25:25.020 you know, there's clearly gonna be a big gap 00:25:25.020 --> 00:25:27.900 in education globally, that, you know, 00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:29.260 I'm happy we're having this conversation, 00:25:29.260 --> 00:25:32.060 'cause I feel like this is a good first step for all of us. 00:25:32.060 --> 00:25:35.180 - And I think just going off something you said, Teresa, 00:25:35.180 --> 00:25:37.660 I think that the core of it for me 00:25:37.660 --> 00:25:40.180 is that this is really a human issue, 00:25:40.180 --> 00:25:44.980 it affects everybody, and just because women 00:25:44.980 --> 00:25:47.140 are the ones that experience it, you know, 00:25:47.140 --> 00:25:48.900 have the lived experience with it, 00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:51.340 really doesn't mean anything in terms of 00:25:51.340 --> 00:25:52.700 how we should educate people. 00:25:52.700 --> 00:25:56.140 I mean, like globally, there are so many, 00:25:56.140 --> 00:25:59.580 so many things that could be done in this area 00:25:59.580 --> 00:26:01.700 to improve, you know, women's lives, 00:26:01.700 --> 00:26:03.980 but also just improve the lives of people in general, 00:26:03.980 --> 00:26:07.660 'cause I do really think that when women in a society 00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:08.620 are better off, you know, 00:26:08.620 --> 00:26:11.220 when they can manage something like this and work, 00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:12.540 you know, you're really talking about 00:26:12.540 --> 00:26:13.540 uplifting a community. 00:26:13.540 --> 00:26:17.380 So I think, you know, in terms of telling these stories, 00:26:17.380 --> 00:26:22.700 this could like literally change the fate of, you know, 00:26:22.700 --> 00:26:24.460 whole communities by making sure 00:26:24.460 --> 00:26:26.740 that women feel supported in this area. 00:26:26.740 --> 00:26:31.620 - Absolutely, absolutely well. 00:26:31.620 --> 00:26:33.460 Just to kind of wrap us all up, 00:26:33.460 --> 00:26:36.020 I wanna thank everyone for you made it this far. 00:26:36.020 --> 00:26:37.060 Thank you for watching it. 00:26:37.060 --> 00:26:39.300 Thank you for staying tuned. 00:26:39.300 --> 00:26:40.900 Hopefully you've learned something new. 00:26:40.900 --> 00:26:42.220 If you are a guy watching this, 00:26:42.220 --> 00:26:44.260 I'm sure you learned a lot of new things. 00:26:44.260 --> 00:26:47.260 So go ahead, tell your friends, tell your dad, 00:26:47.260 --> 00:26:49.380 do whatever you need to do, spread the word. 00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:50.460 We're here to talk about this, 00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:52.300 and hopefully this conversation doesn't go away. 00:26:52.300 --> 00:26:54.020 And if anything, hopefully that's motivated you 00:26:54.020 --> 00:26:56.980 to have some of these conversations with your loved ones. 00:26:56.980 --> 00:26:59.220 But thanks again for tuning in. 00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:01.800 (upbeat music) 00:27:01.800 --> 00:27:04.380 (upbeat music) 00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:06.960 (upbeat music) 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:08.640 (upbeat music)